Michel Fortin SEO Consulting - Latest Comments in The Death of The Salesletter

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Michel Fortin — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:35:03 -0000

I think it's called "Organize Series" plugin.

On Monday, September 7, 2009, Disqus

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Mike Sigers — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:27:11 -0000

Beautiful use of a series plugin. Which one is it, if you don't mind me asking?

This post is even better than it originally was just by breaking it into manageable chunks.

Thanks for leading the way ... again!

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Michel Fortin — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:39:02 -0000

It was actually written closer to three years ago (late 2006). And
thank you!

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Shel — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:35:32 -0000

Micheal.

I am only reading this for the first time. I can't believe this was written 2 years ago and is so relevant.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Cheers,
Shel

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

JosephRatliff — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:51:35 -0000

Michel, what has it been, about 2 years since this was published? It's probably a document that not only pointed to trends which have all manifested themselves as predicted, but a document that is "evergreen" enough that any writer should immediately download and read every page with a highlighter and pen.

My yellowed copy (I printed it about two years ago roughly) still has notes in the margins and highlighted marks on most of the pages.

Great stuff (still) Michel.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Frank Burns — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:31:00 -0000

Hello Michael, I have the 'Web Media Toolkit' and in time, I hope to write as many pages as possible that will hopefully yield enough sales to help charities survive during the hard and better times ahead. Most people are swayed at the illusion of earning large sums of money online but I think there is a greater potential to earnings made and how they can help solve an aging problem, poverty. I am also a member of Success Chef, have been for quite some time and I never realized it's benefits until now. My only tip to you is; http://www.thegaryhalbertle... and I recall buying the book with a signed version from James Sheridan.
I gave the book away and all is lost forever in an endless sea of mixed emotions but we all move on. All the best Michael

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Michel Fortin — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:56:47 -0000

@Stuart Stirling - I don't condemn long copy. The report condemns long-winded, hypey copy. Big difference.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Stuart Stirling — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:56:04 -0000

I'm going to download and read this report. It's now a couple of years old but I'm hoping it still applies just as much or even more today in 2009...

Stuart Stirling

ps. I found this comment from Dr. Mani rather interesting...but it's all good...haha

"From Dr.Mani

Let me see…

A FIFTY-ONE page report that condemns LONG copy… and how many read it through to the end?

I rest my case.

Dr.Mani "

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Gabriel — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:36:24 -0000

I agree. Salesletters have their place when used correctly. But "video salesletters" are gaining more and more credibility among visitors.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

-- TW — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:29:01 -0000

Nothing new about that -- making one's copy believable has always been one of the top challenges (no matter what the claim is) -- and it always will be one of the top challenges. Has nothing to do with whether sales letters are dead. Any copy has that same challenge -- no believes any copy unless the copywriter makes sure the copy IS believable. Always tell the truth -- but even that is not always believable! Sometimes it's a challenge to make the truth believable!!

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Gary Simpson — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:20:57 -0000

David,

I agree. Many copy writers have made such outrageous claims that nobody believes too much about anything any more.

"Add three inches to your wallet by swallowing these pills."

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

David — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:52:04 -0000

I think the crazy claims type of salesletter is definitely dead - or at least should be! But if you have a good product or service and have taken the time to present the benefits correctly without bullsh*ting then you can have an effective salesletter

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

BrettFromTibet — Sun, 04 Feb 2007 23:33:29 -0000

Feel free to check out my original post that inspired this report The Death of a Salesletter? from November, 2006. I'm glad that people are waking up to how embarrassingly outdated much of what is passed off as "direct marketing" on the web is!

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

brettfromtibet — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:00:28 -0000

I'm glad to see that my predictions seemed to have launched this "Death of the Salesletter" meme into the blogosphere. And I am glad that many of the prominent web copywriters seem to agree with it.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

-- TW — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:24:17 -0000

Yes, Jonathan, we agree (relevance of the content).

Also, about headlines -- anyone who says, "no one can write a headline that would *FORCE* me to read further," is either ignorant or lying.

It doesn't have to be the extreme headline in your example. If one knows one's audience, there are HUNDREDS of headlines that can be written that would *FORCE* the reader to read further. A good copywriter could write 100 such headlines without even breaking a sweat.

Cheers!

-- TW

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Jonathan Gunson — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:08:14 -0000

Long copy? short copy?

It's the relevance of the content that counts. I this pretty much what you are driving at TW yes?

The very best example of this I heard LIVE back in the 1980s.

The senior copywriter (Ray) in our studio was debating the point with a young upstart writer called Kevin M. Ray was pointing out that if the copy is made extremely relevant to the reader, then they will read it no matter how long it is.

The headline would just drag them in.

Kevin insisted to the death that all that mattered was PRICE.

"Au contraire!" said the senior. He went on (and I quote): "I could write a full page newpaper ad today with thousands of words, covering 9 columns of 10 point packed in type, barely broken up into paragraphs and you, Kevin, would read every word."

Kevin returned that this was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard. (Chuckling, wheezing and falling about laughing.)

Ray's response was a master stroke:

"Are you sure?" he advanced.

"Oh come on it's absurd" replied Kevin. "NO headline or copy could do that."

"OK!" said Ray "Here 's the headline ... and the copy follows will enlarge on the headline in full detail. The headline reads"

"All about the Sex life of Kevin M.'"

I have never seen someone so rocked back on their heels as Kevin. He opened and closed his mouth.

"Relevancy Kevin!" boomed Ray "Relevancy!" ... and than took us all out for a beer, including Kevin.

To his credit Kevin listened and learned after that..

Jonathan

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

-- TW — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 03:06:07 -0000

Oh -- yes, then I agree. I always thought a good sales letter was a *letter* written from ONE person to ONE person. A very 'intimate' thing. Therefore I never thought those 'screaming' sales letters were good. They are not intimate, and are clearly not ONE person writing to ONE person -- not to mention that, being on the *worldwide* web (obviously for *everyone* to see), no one can read such a letter and feel it was written to (ONLY) them! (which is where a real sales letter gets it effectiveness, imo)

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Michel Fortin — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:59:30 -0000

Of course, it's still a way. Did I say it wasn't? No I didn't. I am a firm believer in long copy. And I chose long copy to deliver the message because of a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to have it in a PDF document that's easily spreadable.

I'm a big believer in long copy. I always will be. I didn't say it was the end of long copy. Go back and read the report -- or read my follow-up post, in the "next post" link below at the bottom here.

What I am saying is that it's the death of the long-scrolling salesletter, namely the poorly written one, particularly when it screams "salesletter!"

I'm not saying this, either. I'm sharing test results. And they're not dramatic changes either, like some Web 2.0 pundits claim or wish them to be. As I said in my report, they are happening slowly and subtlely.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

-- TW — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:31:23 -0000

Oops -- I forgot to mention (maybe others have commented on this too)...

Seems strange you used 52 pages of long-SCROLLING to announce the 'death' of long-SCROLLING copy.

Imo, it's not the length of the text -- it's whether or not there's INFO in the text (and not hype). I see how the web/internet IS different (interactivity, etc.), but people do still READ (magazines, books, etc.), and reading is still a way for consumers to gather info. Your 52-page report proves that by its very existence, no?

-- TW

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Michel Fortin — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:27:13 -0000

Good point. But I didn't say sell them what they want. I said to sell them in the WAY they want. And just like you said, that's often not something they vocalize, either. They don't know or don't want to vocalize for a variety of reason. Thus, let their actions and choices dictate the manner in which they prefer to consume your marketing message. And that's what the Internet allows us to do, compared to other one-way, unidirectional media.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

-- TW — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:14:23 -0000

One little problem. You're assuming consumers KNOW what they want (how/when they want to be sold, etc.). They don't (know what they want). If they did, I wouldn't need to contact them (repeatedly) in the first place.

Consumers (generally) believe that, if marketers would only just disappear, the world would be a better place.

Consumers believe the INITIAL spark that leads to most transactions comes from the consumer him/herself (NOT from marketers).

Consumers believe: "Hey marketers, BUG OFF! -- If I want something, I'll go out and find it myself!"

-- ALL of these beliefs are INCORRECT!

But/so, if you 'ask' consumers how/when they want to be sold, the answer will come back a resounding, "NEVER, YOU F-ERS!"

Telemarketing is a great example. It's a multi-billion dollar industry (read: LOTS of people buy that way), even though "no one" buys that way, and "everybody" hates it.

NO... the consumer has NO IDEA what's good for him/her marketing-wise! -- and therefore it is foolhardy to ask them.

-- TW

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Jim Greene — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:08:25 -0000

Alice,

I really like your thinking.

Jim

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Alice Seba — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:55:45 -0000

It definitely is subjective criteria and that's why I asked Michel if he'd considered the ramifications I see. We'll wait to see if he did. ;-)

About whether I'd title a report "Death of your children..." in order to potential save lives, no I wouldn't. It reminds me of the ads that Melaleuca reps circulate with the headline, "Are You Poisoning Children?" They're insulting and they go to far to inspire fear in parents. If children were really dying, I'd say that, but not resort to extreme scare tactics.

But going back to this case. There is no death. No one or no thing is dying, so it's not really the same thing.

A difference in opinion, of course.

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Duncan Elliott — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:42:55 -0000

Alice, I understand what you are saying and you are not wrong.

Essentially (if I am right), what you are saying that you have more of a moral objection to the use of something within this report, which is fair enough. That does not make it wrong, or right.

The filter I put everything I do through when deciding to do something - whether a marketing campaign, a business creation or anything - is this ...

Could I tell my mum [insert name of another person you love and trust] about this?

If you would not be happy about using the title "Death of whatever" then don't use it. That does not make it right or wrong - simply your decision. Nothing more. Some things that I have chosen not to do could (maybe) have flooded me with money, but that was my decision - there's no point regretting or worrying about it. My decision ... that does not make it wrong in overall terms â€“ simply that I was not happy to do that thing.

Personally, for my tuppence, I do not have a problem with a title like "Death of" - It served its purpose â€“ It caught my attention, I got the report and read it, and I feel it added enough benefit to me that I do not regret the time I gave it to read it.

If I had a serious issue with convincing someone to do something, thinking that it might be perceived as 'manipulative' etc, I would not be in business (practically, financially or theoretically).

Here's a logical extreme to test our viewpoint ...

Would you call a report "The death of your children" if meant that this information got to FAR more parents, and taught them how to be safer parents and look after their children? Would that (albeit dramatic) title then be justified?

I tend to position things between the extremes of the pure Bernays thinking (we are simply emotional animals with hidden subconscious drives lurking) and the "Is it right" filter I mentioned above.

FYI, we collated some great BBC films on Edward Bernays which you will find here
http://mobile-phone-affilia...

Re: The Death of The Salesletter

Alice Seba — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:01:03 -0000

Sure Duncan, but do "results" justify everything? That's the thing. Copywriters and marketers everywhere are saying, "It works, so it must be the way to do it."

The end doesn't always justify the means to me.

And if my wallet is a bit thinner because of it, so be it.