A lot of my early work building a portfolio was done in exchange for products.
Many of the clients where I did copy in exchange for products ended up hiring me for other projects later and paid good fees.
The way you set up those deals is vital and Michel's guidelines in this post are spot on.
In any negotiation you have to maintain a very high perceived value for your service.
Kindest regards, Andrew Cavanagh
SEO Copywriting Service
· 1 year ago
This post is just on time. I am actually dealing with a client who will pay but on a lesser price. The thing is that the service that i offer is more than the double of the price he wants to pay. I guess an agreement between us will be a good thing so i will just give him the service equal to the price he will pay. Is that right?
Elizabeth Southall
· 1 year ago
So true that the clients who pay the least will demand the most...
When I was just starting out, many times I was asked by low-paying clients to tweak this or that, until I'd given over several hours of my time rewriting their copy for no extra compensation at all.
Not only that, but you feel kind of rotten at the end of the day as well, like you've compromised something.
Great post Michel, thanks!
Elizabeth Southall
Michel Fortin
· 1 year ago
@SEO:
Yes and no. Yes, you offer him the lesser service for the price he wants to pay. This is just standard "downselling." But indicate that to them. Make sure you denominate every aspect of your service and show them what they're turning down. Don't just offer a lesser product at a lesser price. Say "We can offer just this for [less money], which doesn't include this [value of X] and this [value of Y]."
Just be clear with them on what exactly they are turning down. For one, you want to increase perceived value. And for another, you don't them to come back and bite you thinking that your service included this or that.
Andy Tsai
· 1 year ago
Great Post Michhel!
Talk about being burnt.
I once gave an advice to a friend of mine, where and how to put his contact number on his site, and made him an extra 120K per month. He later said on TV he did this all based on what he learnt from Brian Tracy...?
Your post really struck a cord with me. I will assimilate the mindset and practice it from now on.
Warm regards, Andy Tsai
Simon Smith
· 1 year ago
I think the solution is, in part, to realize that CLIENTS DON'T VALUE WORDS.
Everyone thinks that they can write. (Friends who are freelance designers or developers don't face this problem. Few people think they can design or develop without the requisite experience and skills.) So words alone have little value.
I've seen much more success when I SELL RESULTS. For example, selling increased click-through rates and conversions. It's easier to ask for money when you demonstrate to clients that they'll see a specific return on investment.
Jeff should REVERSE THE RISK. If he first got key performance indicators for his friends' business, he could run a calculation to show how much increased conversions could improve their revenue. Then, asking for a portion of this would seem more than fair.
Of course, Jeff would have to deliver. But if he's held to measurable results, the added incentive should only drive even greater success--for everyone.
Cindy
· 3 weeks ago
Simon, As a designer I have to disagree with you that designers don't have this issue. Maybe 13 years ago when we started our design company this was true but not as much now. Today there are literally hundreds of "free" services where you can "build a site yourself" and a lot of business people are under the impression that they can build their own website so why should they pay a designer. So it has become harder and harder each year to convey the value of hiring a professional. Because of this many designers have the same problem you mentioned where people don't value words they are also not valuing the skill it takes to design a true corporate site.
We all have to learn to convey the value we are providing instead of relying on the product to "sell" itself.
In our design business we focus on the time saved and the years of expertise that we bring to the table. We ask our clients if it is an effective use of their time to learn how to design it themselves. Or if they should be using that time to market their business and let a professional do the design (or in the case of this post, the writing). Usually they agree that it is a better use of their time to hire someone else and then they can focus on other aspects of their business.
Michel Fortin
· 3 weeks ago
You said...
"We all have to learn to convey the value we are providing instead of relying on the product to "sell" itself."
That's precisely the point.
Designers who are asked a concession should still apply the same concepts, nevertheless. This is about stopping the grinding away process when they are hiring you -- not marketing to get hired or pricing in the first place, which is what you're inferring.
John W. Furst
· 1 year ago
Great post Michel.
The harder you negotiate to maintain the perceived value of your service, the more respect your clients will have for you, and the more likely you will get profitable orders from them in the future. The penny counters are not worth it anyway. I think you are right Michel, when stating it might be more worthwhile to spend your time marketing your service rather than adding a low profile project to your portefeuille.
Wasn't it Gary Halbert, who coined the term "Players With Money", and who taught you should aim for those? They are ultimately easier to sell to, they recognize value, they can make decisions, and they have the money to spend.
Have a nice weekend.
Thomas
· 3 weeks ago
This reminds me of some of the sayings of yesteryear.
A wise person learns from experience and a smart person learns from the experience of others.
Hoover
· 3 weeks ago
I'm a copywriter and the more I charge, the better my work.
I have a range of clients. Some I took on in the early days at a low price. Others I took on later when I was more confident and charged a lot more.
The later ones get more attention, more extras and little freebies, more time and quality. That works out pretty well, because the relationship with them is also better - they respect me more than my cheaper clients.
Peter
· 3 weeks ago
Ha! Was that great line in Wizard-of-Oz take-off Wicked? -- "No good deed goes unpunished." Michel, you give sage advice once again.
One possible caveat. Your novice copywriter portrays a verbal agreement to work for free before seeking your advice. He may not have stated to you any condition he placed on his commitment to the small company, but with no condition (I'll do it if ...), in my view he has a moral obligation to do as he said he would. If so,it's live and learn for him.
Michael Jackson
· 3 weeks ago
As a photographer this article hits very very close to home. With digital cameras being sold for next to nothing, the perception is that anyone can take a great picture.
Hmm... something about a picture and a thousand words comes to mind.
This article should be required reading for all people in any service industry.
Alan
· 3 weeks ago
OK Michael, I loved the article and wished I read it a year ago, but the email title "How to Stop Insatiable Clients From Sucking You Dry" My spam filter didn't have as innocent a mind as you did when you wrote the line. Hope that gave you a laugh.
Paul
· 3 weeks ago
Hello Michael Understandably Jeff wants to hel/p his friends and also build his experience but Jeff should point out to his friends that they would not give their product away (unless it was part of a larger strategy} and that his copywriting is HIS product and that they should not expect him to give his product away for free either. ,
All Comments
A lot of my early work building a portfolio was done in exchange for products.
Many of the clients where I did copy in exchange for products ended up hiring me for other projects later and paid good fees.
The way you set up those deals is vital and Michel's guidelines in this post are spot on.
In any negotiation you have to maintain a very high perceived value for your service.
Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
When I was just starting out, many times I was asked by low-paying clients to tweak this or that, until I'd given over several hours of my time rewriting their copy for no extra compensation at all.
Not only that, but you feel kind of rotten at the end of the day as well, like you've compromised something.
Great post Michel, thanks!
Elizabeth Southall
Yes and no. Yes, you offer him the lesser service for the price he wants to pay. This is just standard "downselling." But indicate that to them. Make sure you denominate every aspect of your service and show them what they're turning down. Don't just offer a lesser product at a lesser price. Say "We can offer just this for [less money], which doesn't include this [value of X] and this [value of Y]."
Just be clear with them on what exactly they are turning down. For one, you want to increase perceived value. And for another, you don't them to come back and bite you thinking that your service included this or that.
Talk about being burnt.
I once gave an advice to a friend of mine, where and how to put his contact number on his site, and made him an extra 120K per month.
He later said on TV he did this all based on what he learnt from Brian Tracy...?
Your post really struck a cord with me. I will assimilate the mindset and practice it from now on.
Warm regards,
Andy Tsai
Everyone thinks that they can write. (Friends who are freelance designers or developers don't face this problem. Few people think they can design or develop without the requisite experience and skills.) So words alone have little value.
I've seen much more success when I SELL RESULTS. For example, selling increased click-through rates and conversions. It's easier to ask for money when you demonstrate to clients that they'll see a specific return on investment.
Jeff should REVERSE THE RISK. If he first got key performance indicators for his friends' business, he could run a calculation to show how much increased conversions could improve their revenue. Then, asking for a portion of this would seem more than fair.
Of course, Jeff would have to deliver. But if he's held to measurable results, the added incentive should only drive even greater success--for everyone.
As a designer I have to disagree with you that designers don't have this issue. Maybe 13 years ago when we started our design company this was true but not as much now. Today there are literally hundreds of "free" services where you can "build a site yourself" and a lot of business people are under the impression that they can build their own website so why should they pay a designer. So it has become harder and harder each year to convey the value of hiring a professional. Because of this many designers have the same problem you mentioned where people don't value words they are also not valuing the skill it takes to design a true corporate site.
We all have to learn to convey the value we are providing instead of relying on the product to "sell" itself.
In our design business we focus on the time saved and the years of expertise that we bring to the table. We ask our clients if it is an effective use of their time to learn how to design it themselves. Or if they should be using that time to market their business and let a professional do the design (or in the case of this post, the writing). Usually they agree that it is a better use of their time to hire someone else and then they can focus on other aspects of their business.
"We all have to learn to convey the value we are providing instead of
relying on the product to "sell" itself."
That's precisely the point.
Designers who are asked a concession should still apply the same concepts,
nevertheless. This is about stopping the grinding away process when they are
hiring you -- not marketing to get hired or pricing in the first place,
which is what you're inferring.
The harder you negotiate to maintain the perceived value of your service, the more respect your clients will have for you, and the more likely you will get profitable orders from them in the future. The penny counters are not worth it anyway. I think you are right Michel, when stating it might be more worthwhile to spend your time marketing your service rather than adding a low profile project to your portefeuille.
Wasn't it Gary Halbert, who coined the term "Players With Money", and who taught you should aim for those? They are ultimately easier to sell to, they recognize value, they can make decisions, and they have the money to spend.
Have a nice weekend.
A wise person learns from experience and a smart person learns from the experience of others.
I have a range of clients. Some I took on in the early days at a low price. Others I took on later when I was more confident and charged a lot more.
The later ones get more attention, more extras and little freebies, more time and quality. That works out pretty well, because the relationship with them is also better - they respect me more than my cheaper clients.
One possible caveat. Your novice copywriter portrays a verbal agreement to work for free before seeking your advice. He may not have stated to you any condition he placed on his commitment to the small company, but with no condition (I'll do it if ...), in my view he has a moral obligation to do as he said he would. If so,it's live and learn for him.
Hmm... something about a picture and a thousand words comes to mind.
This article should be required reading for all people in any service industry.
I loved the article and wished I read it a year ago, but the email title "How to Stop Insatiable Clients From Sucking You Dry" My spam filter didn't have as innocent a mind as you did when you wrote the line.
Hope that gave you a laugh.
Understandably Jeff wants to hel/p his friends and also build his experience but Jeff should point out to his friends that they would not give their product away (unless it was part of a larger strategy} and that his copywriting is HIS product and that they should not expect him to give his product away for free either.
,
,