As one who went through the upsell gyrations of Matt's offer, and then discovered my efforts were automatically "rewarded" with a monthly subscription .... well, let's just say my initial reaction was extreme disappointment.
I was disappointed in the (still) trusted marketer whose email sent me to Matt. I was disappointed in Matt.
However, as the days passed, three realizations replaced my initial reaction.
First: Matt provided an overwhelming amount of valuable and actionable information. He over-delivered.
Second: Because of how the monthly newsletter was nailed to my wallet, I had no intention of keeping the subscription.
Third: A new filter has been added to my pre-purchase analysis. Exactly what's behind the curtain?
How can any marketer expect long-term back-end success (for all parties involved) when the initial offer is a kick in the front end?
Brett T. Smith
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the follow-up post.
I personally have no problem with forced continuity AS LONG AS the customers knows it is happening.
A programming glitch? Come on Michel. That's about as honest as the old "im emailing you again because the server crashed" move.
If you have to hide a sign-up to your newsletter, the newsletter itself isn't strong enough to stand on its own. The ONLY ethical way for this to work would have been to offer the newsletter trial for $1 and you get the $5k seminar info as a bonus... Hiding the newsletter forced continuity in the "deal" is under-handed, regardless if the "programmer" screwed up a check box. Gotta love tactics that have been used in the porn industry being put to good use.
ga
· 1 year ago
It's kind of irritating to see Matt's self-serving promotion given a level of credibility and ethnicity it doesn't deserve. The sales page never did change. Just the email promotion was reworded a couple of times.
It's obvious that the whole intent was just to sell a subscription to something that nobody had ever heard of. And apparently from the ones who have, it contains nothing that can't be found for free on the web. Nothing worth $30 a month.
It's a sad truth that many web gurus see their list as just a means to an end. They might have gained credibility at one time, but now they just want to use their experience in writing copy and imaginative BS to keep on generating income.
I have unsubscribed from Matt and every one who promoted that deal. Some who I personally emailed at the time said they had no problem with the way the promotion was written and structured. So I guess that's where we are with internet marketing today.
Ron Schmidt
· 1 year ago
Ketchup? You're talking ketchup here as an analogy?
Joseph Ratliff
· 1 year ago
Michel,
I actually believe that this may have been a mistake on Matt's programmer's part.
I have opted for one of Matt's continuity programs out of an offer for one of his books. It was easy to opt-out of that one, very easy in fact.
But this "$1 for a $5000 seminar" offer went a little farther than that one did in terms of "burying the perceived value" in a bunch of sales messages. When that happens, a customer starts to wonder about the value they are getting with the initial purchase.
Now, I respect the fact that Matt was marketing his other stuff...but perhaps he could have built the offer differently so perceived value was not lost in the forced continuity message and all of the add on sales.
Then, even if the "mistake" happened with the programmer and the affiliates that may have jumped early, this situation may not have spun out of control.
Forced continuity works, but when you market using it, you have to focus on offer retention, or the number of people who actually stick after purchasing the offer through a trial period.
Joseph Ratliff
Joachim
· 1 year ago
Michel,
Posting the video of Matt presenting a check to a charity is completely irrelevant to the discussion you solicited. You wanted opinions of the way Matt presented his offer and from my reading of the comments, Matt irrevocably damaged his reputation and to a minor degree yours as well though salvaged pretty much by having this discussion on this and your last post.
Even though Matt's material is an excellent value, he will always be suspect in any offer he makes in the future to me and I suspect those many others who signed up and went through the aggravation of canceling the after signup subscription.
Thank you for initiating this discussion as I think it was very revealing to marketers who may think about getting a bit too clever in their sales process.
Mark Schrader
· 1 year ago
Thanks Michael for understanding my complaint about Matts upsells.
Another point that was not discussed was the complete seminar we were told that we were to get. There was the online digital version & the packaged information.
The packaged version was for $497 which I believe contains far more info than the online version.
So essence I also felt that Matt was holding back & not really over delivering.
Matt used the advertising angle that one of his students ripped him off so now he wants to give you his stuff away for free or $1 to get back or even with this student... Only to discover he just used this approach to lead you to believe you would get killer content.
Matt ruined his credibility with other experienced marketers due to the hype surrounding the Matt Retires seminar promotion.
Matt leads you to believe that you really are going to learn valuable stuff that he teaches to other online marketing gurus.
His online videos were basically for internet newbies & not for experienced direct response internet marketers.
The online version of his seminar was very disappointing as the content was so basic with nothing really exposed or revealed...it was just rehashed marketing stuff revealed elsewhere.
Your blog reveals far more advanced marketing content then what the Matt Retires Seminar delivers.
I can't believe people paid $5000 for such a seminar unless Matt simply held back from giving away his complete seminar online as advertised for $1.
Hopefully Matt learns his lesson & starts to over deliver w/o holding back.
Heck, I would have bought his other marketing packages if he delivered as promised...but he did not so it casted doubt about his other offers.
I just expected more from Matt & he failed to live up to the expectations promised in his salesletter. Like Joe Sugarman says: It's better to undersell than oversell as it boosts the believability of your copy.
Matts copy was far better than his offer...but the backlash of complaints ended up being far greater than it was worth.
Dr.Mani
· 1 year ago
Michel, I echoed a similar viewpoint in a blog post provocatively titled:
This crystallizes what was already fairly clear-cut in your earlier post. Excellent post!
I'm not sure I can wrap my mind around what a favor I'm doing my customers by charging them for my products. LOL That's one mindset I haven't embraced, but I'm willing to explore. It does have a kind of twisted logic to it. I'm not certain it's the way consumers would think about it, however - at least not consumers with limited resources.
Thanks for bringing more clarity to this troublesome topic.
Deb Gallardo (Yes, the same Deb Gallardo from Joel's apology letter)
Perry
· 1 year ago
I'm one of the folks that signed up for the $1 deal. I was pretty dismayed I had to go through 2 up-sells to finalize the deal.
I don't purchase up-sells when presented this way. I find them very irritating and unnecessary.
After all, he got my email address with the $1 deal. He could have easily continued to market to me that way and I would have at least opened them, read them, and probably clicked the link to check out the offer.
Done this way, I have no further interest in what he has to offer.
I think the long term value of the customer over-shadows the fast buck made by forcing people into "make the decision now or lose it" type of marketing.
Sylvie Fortin
· 1 year ago
@ Deb
You said something that brings up a very interesting perspective.
"I'm not sure I can wrap my mind around what a favor I'm doing my customers by charging them for my products. LOL"
I used to think the same way, way back in the olden days (1999). LOL
Let me give you the backstory...
When Workaholics4Hire.com began, we entered the "work at home jobs" market at a time when people looking for homebased jobs were being inundated with offers to be members of work at home job sites for a monthly fee. The problem with the offers was that the membership did not include job listings that were unique in any way. They were job listings that were gleaned from existing job sites, and were often severely outdated and never purged from the system.
So, I created one of the first genuinely free work at home jobs databases online. I paid (and still pay) for a researcher to locate real work at home jobs and compile them into a searchable database that decreases the hassles associated with finding real jobs.
It's been online since 1999, and we have no intention of removing it or charging for it.
HOWEVER
Along with the database, we once had a hopping discussion forum where members could freely communicate about their job search. I also paid moderators to answer questions and help members with their issues.
That forum ran for over 2 years and we had to answer the same questions over and over again. People, quite simply, didn't listen to the free advice. They kept arguing. Griping. Complaining. Irritating us in the process.
I got smart. I realized that because this information was free, people felt free to ignore it. They came. They griped. They left.
So I drafted an ebook that told them everything they needed to know about how to create their own real work at home jobs. And I sold that book. It still sells to this day.
And here's what happened.
People who bought the book actually DID what the book told them to do. They didn't argue. They believed that the information was more valuable because they paid for it, and they followed the instructions.
And they got the jobs they wanted as a result.
I learned a very valuable lesson with that experience.
People will put value into the gems you offer if they have invested in that information. AND you will invest more thought and care into your products if you are going to get paid for doing it. It is a Win/Win situation.
That doesn't mean that all paid information is great, nor does it mean that all free information sucks. What it means is that generally speaking, selling great information that solves people's problems wins over giving away the farm. Both sides win, and that is a beautiful thing. :)
Anna
· 1 year ago
I don't think people are confusing the issues between hidden and transparent forced continuity. I am pretty sure most everyone in this industry is very familiar with the difference. The uproar was specifically because of the obscure mention of the forced continuity offer. My frustration is also with the obvious forced continuity offer as well. I understand the profitability issue and that it is the star tool in marketing, but really, I can't seem to purchase anyone's product without being forced into their program. Yes, I can cancel, but sometimes I forget. The marketer is making me jump through another hoop. Yes, please make offers to me but let me decide. Don't make me decide not to buy your product just because I don't want the hassle of cancelling another membership. The analogy I made on another blog is wanting to buy a pair of shoes at the department store and being told I can't buy them unless I become a member of the monthly hosiery club, I don't think so. Have you noticed, I'm not a fan of forced continuity either?
Ichiro Shiraki
· 1 year ago
I enjoyed reading the conversations Michel initiated here. I am a Japanese marketer who has attended Big Seminar a couple of times and met almost all the famous marketers mentioned here. I also recently bought Matt's minimal package (monthly newsletter only) after keeping declining the upsells and while found a bit annoying, this is almost now a standard practice in the US, at least in Internet Marketing niche where most of the people are pretty savvy about the whole sales process.
I found this post interesting and timely as I have been recently retained as a consultant to create an online marketing system in Japan and the US for a successful US start-up that sells gas-mileage-improving products (not an information product. BTW, the website I put here is Japanese and you won't make a sense of it, sorry!) and I thought having a cheap loss-making offer upfront (basically a tiny sum covering shipping and handling only and) to start a forced continuity/negative option would be a key for the plan. I would definitely take customer's credit card or a purchase through Paypal to secure monthly billing going forward.
I have been struggling as to whether proactively notifying repeat customers prior to monthly billing cycle on their upcoming purchase. While it would probably decrease repeat purchase rate a bit (of course I don't know how much), it would definitely increase transparency Michel discussed here.
Also, I have been shopping around for shopping cart platforms and found surprising that major ones in Japan don't have such built-in functionality, thus forced continuity is not really practiced (it is not the case for information products though). Probably NOT in the US (for example, I heard that Mike Filsaime's Butterfly Marketing script can be used to tweak OTO and upsells that also works with major shopping cart systems in the US including 1Shopping Cart).
Any perspectives from marketers in English-language markets would be appreciated as I can imagine lots of them use forced continuity for tangible products or information products one way or the other successfully without damaging their reputation.
Ichiro Shiraki
Alan Petersen
· 1 year ago
I wouldn't use Girls Gone Wild videos as an example of legal forced continuity. The FTC fines were over a $1 million dollars to pay back consumers and the FTC stated that the company:
"deceptively marketed Girls Gone Wild videos and DVDs to consumers, automatically shipped these unordered videos and DVDs to consumers, and charged consumers for them without consumers' consent" (Source-http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/07/girlsgonewild.shtm)
As consumers we don't want to hear excuses and just because others are doing doesn't mean we should be fine with it. It might work in other niches but in the Internet marketing niche most of us do not like forced continuity even if it's legal. Give us the choice to make our decision. Option A with forced continuity or Option B without. Just because other industries do it doesn't mean we have to like it in the Internet marketing field. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Wendy Owen
· 1 year ago
Oh heck! I signed up for the $1 seminar so quickly I must have missed the paid newsletter optin.
How do I opt out please? Does anyone know?
Thanks in advance
Wendy
Michel Fortin
· 1 year ago
@Alan:
Thanks for the heads up. Glad to know.
The Story Ideas Virtuoso
· 1 year ago
@Sylvie
Thank you for taking the time to relate that excellent experience of yours. I understand, in theory, that "free" is generally not valued as much a "paid." I know Jim Edwards had a similar experience. He was giving away a whole site full of FSBO info. Then he created a mini site, started charging for the same information, and never looked back.
There is another side to this that I've encountered from other reputable IMers, which is giving away good information but also selling the cream of the crop -- the wisdom being that the consumer says, "If this is the quality she's giving away, how much better will the stuff be she's charging for?"
Where my mind is still trying to go is that I'm doing someone a favor by charging.
Tell me if I'm on the right track. In your example, by placing a value on your information, you "lead your clients to the water" so to speak. That would be a favor if they couldn't get there themselves without getting lost or without great delay.
Strictly based on personality, and continuing with that analogy, I would first offer a free drink of my good, pure water to the parched and thirsty travelers. When they'd had a good drink or two, I would offer my services to lead them to where they can quench their thirst both now and in the future. Or they could choose to go it alone, hoping they'll find the source on their own before dehydration sets in.
Am I anywhere in the ballpark here?
I think I'm starting to get it. Thanks for addressing this peripheral issue with such good detail and illustration.
Deb Gallardo
P.S. - BTW, any chance you could increase the font size? This print is microscopic. LOL
Sylvie Fortin
· 1 year ago
@Deb
I completely agree! In the example I gave, we DO give away a very valuable resource, the free telecommuting jobs database. And it works very well as a viral marketing pull, because it is free and gives people what they BELIEVE they want, and they tell others about it.
I say "believe" because the reality of work at home job seeking is that no job databases are ever the real source of consistent jobs. The real way to make money from home as a freelancer is to create your own and seek out clients (not bosses). So, that is the method that is taught in the info-product people pay for. The free jobs database is the draw, while the paid product delivers the real value.
Glen B. Stewart
· 1 year ago
Forced Continuity - Monthly Subscribers same thing.
Ever get 8 free records at Columbia house in exchange 2 promising to buy an additional 12 records for the next year.
And if you don't like that month's selection, you can simply return it.
Same strategy -different suit of clothes.
Why my input?
I paid a buck for Matt's $5,000 seminar materials.
I didn't opt for the DVD upsell however. That will haunt me. Truthfully. When I opened Matt's premium website, I was treated to King Mida's greatest secret I felt.
At 50 years of age and 30 years of it researching marketing - Matt delivered at a Quantum level of content.
Matt insights were so good that I put up a 2 week old site and shot it to #5 currently in Google. In a very competitive keyword arena The site STILL has Matt's Retirement Title Phrase on it - Not mine!
I just may leave it like that for Another week. Son if your advice is THAT good you deserve every hour of it.
I attended Matt's Marketing Madness seminar and was in notation nirvana at it.
In my opinion - Matt Bacak and Armand Morin are the cream of the Internet Marketing Seminar community.
I too wonder of the fiber of the person who would not consider calling Tamara, Matt's executive assistant and simply clearing up the matter. It is without a soul to get a life changing game plan for a freakin Buck. And put a Man's honor and business in a tailspin.
Why did I put Matt's Page Title on my site? Because I wanted to be Matt's Affiliate after that seminar. There are few people whom I would refer out to mentor on a topic that I could cover myself.
However - Matt Bacak even at 20 years younger in marketing experience earned it.
Matt - I still wish to be your affiliate. If that causes revelations amongst my list, They will be comforted with the facts.
As a test - I used only 1 of Matt's 9 core techniques. Besides the site I mentioned, I did a Google search on my name in quotes. In 2 weeks my global exposure went up 49%
What do wish to do of this glitch on his site?
I'll think about it after I hang a Mistletoe on his front porch. I plan to hire a secretary just so I can outsource kissing the guy.
You?
Glen B. Stewart
P.S. Dishearted? I feel for you also. In the past month I was given a nightmare for a HD Camera I needed for a production shoot. They flaked for over a month while tying up serious money.
Then I get a major memory supplier call my mother! and second guess her and me. Unbeliveable. I immediately decided my Video and 3D Animation corporation does not need more memory from them after all - Imagine being personally Offended after 10 years of business conduction.
Having ranted myself - I stand behind Matt's training 1,000,000.00%. Because in my opinion, That's the difference he made in my small businesses.
Sean Roach
· 1 year ago
Truly, the whole forced-continuity situation isn't something that we need to argue about. If people appreciate it, they'll convert. If not, they will unsubscribe... or worse... ignore your emails. There is no moral issue, just a reality outcome.
mark
· 1 year ago
I love using forced continuity...however I do offer the option of buying w/o signing up for the forced continuity.
Your forced continuity must be irresistible or worthwhile.
For example they will either get free shipping or save X amount of dollars or both. I've gained lost orders from offering a choice but most want to try the free trial.
Plus extend your free trial out to 30 days & not 7 to 14 days...Why? because like Gary Halbert says the customer will be too worried about the short amount of time & will be focused on the trial date expiring.
Most marketeers screw this part up & then wonder why their retention rate sucks...the marketers end up hurting themselves due to impatience to accumulating the sale. If you don't believe in your product then don't offer such a program or else it will haunt you.
Jhon
· 8 months ago
Great article ! The sales page never did change. Just the email promotion was reworded a couple of times.t’s a sad truth that many web gurus see their list as just a means to an end. They might have gained credibility at one time, but now they just want to use their experience in writing copy and imaginative BS to keep on generating income.
Joshua Uebergang
· 3 months ago
I remember a post or report from months ago Michel, where you provided an example from one of your courses (I think it was Success Chef) about how to retain membership. I've searched for 30 minutes and cannot find it! You discussed selling members on what's to come next month and provided clear steps for them to cancel. I remember thinking it was an ideal example of what to do.
I'm hoping you can point me to that content so I can study it for a continuity program I'm launching. Thank you.
All Comments
http://www.mattbacak.com/2008/04/matt-bacak-han...
I was disappointed in the (still) trusted marketer whose email sent me to Matt. I was disappointed in Matt.
However, as the days passed, three realizations replaced my initial reaction.
First: Matt provided an overwhelming amount of valuable and actionable information. He over-delivered.
Second: Because of how the monthly newsletter was nailed to my wallet, I had no intention of keeping the subscription.
Third: A new filter has been added to my pre-purchase analysis. Exactly what's behind the curtain?
How can any marketer expect long-term back-end success (for all parties involved) when the initial offer is a kick in the front end?
I personally have no problem with forced continuity AS LONG AS the customers knows it is happening.
Hiding that is just not cool...
~Brett
http://www.FreeTrafficBigProfits.com
If you have to hide a sign-up to your newsletter, the newsletter itself isn't strong enough to stand on its own. The ONLY ethical way for this to work would have been to offer the newsletter trial for $1 and you get the $5k seminar info as a bonus... Hiding the newsletter forced continuity in the "deal" is under-handed, regardless if the "programmer" screwed up a check box. Gotta love tactics that have been used in the porn industry being put to good use.
The sales page never did change. Just the email promotion was reworded a couple of times.
It's obvious that the whole intent was just to sell a subscription to something that nobody had ever heard of. And apparently from the ones who have, it contains nothing that can't be found for free on the web. Nothing worth $30 a month.
It's a sad truth that many web gurus see their list as just a means to an end. They might have gained credibility at one time, but now they just want to use their experience in writing copy and imaginative BS to keep on generating income.
I have unsubscribed from Matt and every one who promoted that deal. Some who I personally emailed at the time said they had no problem with the way the promotion was written and structured. So I guess that's where we are with internet marketing today.
I actually believe that this may have been a mistake on Matt's programmer's part.
I have opted for one of Matt's continuity programs out of an offer for one of his books. It was easy to opt-out of that one, very easy in fact.
But this "$1 for a $5000 seminar" offer went a little farther than that one did in terms of "burying the perceived value" in a bunch of sales messages. When that happens, a customer starts to wonder about the value they are getting with the initial purchase.
Now, I respect the fact that Matt was marketing his other stuff...but perhaps he could have built the offer differently so perceived value was not lost in the forced continuity message and all of the add on sales.
Then, even if the "mistake" happened with the programmer and the affiliates that may have jumped early, this situation may not have spun out of control.
Forced continuity works, but when you market using it, you have to focus on offer retention, or the number of people who actually stick after purchasing the offer through a trial period.
Joseph Ratliff
Posting the video of Matt presenting a check to a charity is completely irrelevant to the discussion you solicited. You wanted opinions of the way Matt presented his offer and from my reading of the comments, Matt irrevocably damaged his reputation and to a minor degree yours as well though salvaged pretty much by having this discussion on this and your last post.
Even though Matt's material is an excellent value, he will always be suspect in any offer he makes in the future to me and I suspect those many others who signed up and went through the aggravation of canceling the after signup subscription.
Thank you for initiating this discussion as I think it was very revealing to marketers who may think about getting a bit too clever in their sales process.
Another point that was not discussed was the complete seminar we were told that we were to get. There was the online digital version & the packaged information.
The packaged version was for $497 which I believe contains far more info than the online version.
So essence I also felt that Matt was holding back & not really over delivering.
Matt used the advertising angle that one of his students ripped him off so now he wants to give you his stuff away for free or $1 to get back or even with this student... Only to discover he just used this approach to lead you to believe you would get killer content.
Matt ruined his credibility with other experienced marketers due to the hype surrounding the Matt Retires seminar promotion.
Matt leads you to believe that you really are going to learn valuable stuff that he teaches to other online marketing gurus.
His online videos were basically for internet newbies & not for experienced direct response internet marketers.
The online version of his seminar was very disappointing as the content was so basic with nothing really exposed or revealed...it was just rehashed marketing stuff revealed elsewhere.
Your blog reveals far more advanced marketing content then what the Matt Retires Seminar delivers.
I can't believe people paid $5000 for such a seminar unless Matt simply held back from giving away his complete seminar online as advertised for $1.
Hopefully Matt learns his lesson & starts to over deliver w/o holding back.
Heck, I would have bought his other marketing packages if he delivered as promised...but he did not so it casted doubt about his other offers.
I just expected more from Matt & he failed to live up to the expectations promised in his salesletter. Like Joe Sugarman says: It's better to undersell than oversell as it boosts the believability of your copy.
Matts copy was far better than his offer...but the backlash of complaints ended up being far greater than it was worth.
"Forced Continuity - Great Concept, Stupid Implementation"
http://www.MoneyPowerWisdom.com
All success
Dr.Mani
This crystallizes what was already fairly clear-cut in your earlier post. Excellent post!
I'm not sure I can wrap my mind around what a favor I'm doing my customers by charging them for my products. LOL That's one mindset I haven't embraced, but I'm willing to explore. It does have a kind of twisted logic to it. I'm not certain it's the way consumers would think about it, however - at least not consumers with limited resources.
Thanks for bringing more clarity to this troublesome topic.
Deb Gallardo
(Yes, the same Deb Gallardo from Joel's apology letter)
I don't purchase up-sells when presented this way. I find them very irritating and unnecessary.
After all, he got my email address with the $1 deal. He could have easily continued to market to me that way and I would have at least opened them, read them, and probably clicked the link to check out the offer.
Done this way, I have no further interest in what he has to offer.
I think the long term value of the customer over-shadows the fast buck made by forcing people into "make the decision now or lose it" type of marketing.
You said something that brings up a very interesting perspective.
"I'm not sure I can wrap my mind around what a favor I'm doing my customers by charging them for my products. LOL"
I used to think the same way, way back in the olden days (1999). LOL
Let me give you the backstory...
When Workaholics4Hire.com began, we entered the "work at home jobs" market at a time when people looking for homebased jobs were being inundated with offers to be members of work at home job sites for a monthly fee. The problem with the offers was that the membership did not include job listings that were unique in any way. They were job listings that were gleaned from existing job sites, and were often severely outdated and never purged from the system.
So, I created one of the first genuinely free work at home jobs databases online. I paid (and still pay) for a researcher to locate real work at home jobs and compile them into a searchable database that decreases the hassles associated with finding real jobs.
It's been online since 1999, and we have no intention of removing it or charging for it.
HOWEVER
Along with the database, we once had a hopping discussion forum where members could freely communicate about their job search. I also paid moderators to answer questions and help members with their issues.
That forum ran for over 2 years and we had to answer the same questions over and over again. People, quite simply, didn't listen to the free advice. They kept arguing. Griping. Complaining. Irritating us in the process.
I got smart. I realized that because this information was free, people felt free to ignore it. They came. They griped. They left.
So I drafted an ebook that told them everything they needed to know about how to create their own real work at home jobs. And I sold that book. It still sells to this day.
And here's what happened.
People who bought the book actually DID what the book told them to do. They didn't argue. They believed that the information was more valuable because they paid for it, and they followed the instructions.
And they got the jobs they wanted as a result.
I learned a very valuable lesson with that experience.
People will put value into the gems you offer if they have invested in that information. AND you will invest more thought and care into your products if you are going to get paid for doing it. It is a Win/Win situation.
That doesn't mean that all paid information is great, nor does it mean that all free information sucks. What it means is that generally speaking, selling great information that solves people's problems wins over giving away the farm. Both sides win, and that is a beautiful thing. :)
I found this post interesting and timely as I have been recently retained as a consultant to create an online marketing system in Japan and the US for a successful US start-up that sells gas-mileage-improving products (not an information product. BTW, the website I put here is Japanese and you won't make a sense of it, sorry!) and I thought having a cheap loss-making offer upfront (basically a tiny sum covering shipping and handling only and) to start a forced continuity/negative option would be a key for the plan. I would definitely take customer's credit card or a purchase through Paypal to secure monthly billing going forward.
I have been struggling as to whether proactively notifying repeat customers prior to monthly billing cycle on their upcoming purchase. While it would probably decrease repeat purchase rate a bit (of course I don't know how much), it would definitely increase transparency Michel discussed here.
Also, I have been shopping around for shopping cart platforms and found surprising that major ones in Japan don't have such built-in functionality, thus forced continuity is not really practiced (it is not the case for information products though). Probably NOT in the US (for example, I heard that Mike Filsaime's Butterfly Marketing script can be used to tweak OTO and upsells that also works with major shopping cart systems in the US including 1Shopping Cart).
Any perspectives from marketers in English-language markets would be appreciated as I can imagine lots of them use forced continuity for tangible products or information products one way or the other successfully without damaging their reputation.
Ichiro Shiraki
"deceptively marketed Girls Gone Wild videos and DVDs to consumers, automatically shipped these unordered videos and DVDs to consumers, and charged consumers for them without consumers' consent" (Source-http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/07/girlsgonewild.shtm)
As consumers we don't want to hear excuses and just because others are doing doesn't mean we should be fine with it. It might work in other niches but in the Internet marketing niche most of us do not like forced continuity even if it's legal. Give us the choice to make our decision. Option A with forced continuity or Option B without. Just because other industries do it doesn't mean we have to like it in the Internet marketing field. Two wrongs do not make a right.
How do I opt out please? Does anyone know?
Thanks in advance
Wendy
Thanks for the heads up. Glad to know.
Thank you for taking the time to relate that excellent experience of yours. I understand, in theory, that "free" is generally not valued as much a "paid." I know Jim Edwards had a similar experience. He was giving away a whole site full of FSBO info. Then he created a mini site, started charging for the same information, and never looked back.
There is another side to this that I've encountered from other reputable IMers, which is giving away good information but also selling the cream of the crop -- the wisdom being that the consumer says, "If this is the quality she's giving away, how much better will the stuff be she's charging for?"
Where my mind is still trying to go is that I'm doing someone a favor by charging.
Tell me if I'm on the right track. In your example, by placing a value on your information, you "lead your clients to the water" so to speak. That would be a favor if they couldn't get there themselves without getting lost or without great delay.
Strictly based on personality, and continuing with that analogy, I would first offer a free drink of my good, pure water to the parched and thirsty travelers. When they'd had a good drink or two, I would offer my services to lead them to where they can quench their thirst both now and in the future. Or they could choose to go it alone, hoping they'll find the source on their own before dehydration sets in.
Am I anywhere in the ballpark here?
I think I'm starting to get it. Thanks for addressing this peripheral issue with such good detail and illustration.
Deb Gallardo
P.S. - BTW, any chance you could increase the font size? This print is microscopic. LOL
I completely agree! In the example I gave, we DO give away a very valuable resource, the free telecommuting jobs database. And it works very well as a viral marketing pull, because it is free and gives people what they BELIEVE they want, and they tell others about it.
I say "believe" because the reality of work at home job seeking is that no job databases are ever the real source of consistent jobs. The real way to make money from home as a freelancer is to create your own and seek out clients (not bosses). So, that is the method that is taught in the info-product people pay for. The free jobs database is the draw, while the paid product delivers the real value.
Ever get 8 free records at Columbia house in exchange 2 promising to buy an additional 12 records for the next year.
And if you don't like that month's selection, you can simply return it.
Same strategy -different suit of clothes.
Why my input?
I paid a buck for Matt's $5,000 seminar materials.
I didn't opt for the DVD upsell however. That will haunt me. Truthfully. When I opened Matt's premium website, I was treated to King Mida's greatest secret I felt.
At 50 years of age and 30 years of it researching marketing - Matt delivered at a Quantum level of content.
Matt insights were so good that I put up a 2 week old site and shot it to #5 currently in Google. In a very competitive keyword arena The site STILL has Matt's Retirement Title Phrase on it - Not mine!
I just may leave it like that for Another week. Son if your advice is THAT good you deserve every hour of it.
I attended Matt's Marketing Madness seminar and was in notation nirvana at it.
In my opinion - Matt Bacak and Armand Morin are the cream of the Internet Marketing Seminar community.
I too wonder of the fiber of the person who would not consider calling Tamara, Matt's executive assistant and simply clearing up the matter. It is without a soul to get a life changing game plan for a freakin Buck. And put a Man's honor and business in a tailspin.
Why did I put Matt's Page Title on my site? Because I wanted to be Matt's Affiliate after that seminar. There are few people whom I would refer out to mentor on a topic that I could cover myself.
However - Matt Bacak even at 20 years younger in marketing experience earned it.
Matt - I still wish to be your affiliate. If that causes revelations amongst my list, They will be comforted with the facts.
As a test - I used only 1 of Matt's 9 core techniques. Besides the site I mentioned, I did a Google search on my name in quotes. In 2 weeks my global exposure went up 49%
What do wish to do of this glitch on his site?
I'll think about it after I hang a Mistletoe on his front porch. I plan to hire a secretary just so I can outsource kissing the guy.
You?
Glen B. Stewart
P.S. Dishearted? I feel for you also. In the past month I was given a nightmare for a HD Camera I needed for a production shoot. They flaked for over a month while tying up serious money.
Then I get a major memory supplier call my mother! and second guess her and me. Unbeliveable. I immediately decided my Video and 3D Animation corporation does not need more memory from them after all - Imagine being personally Offended after 10 years of business conduction.
Having ranted myself - I stand behind Matt's training 1,000,000.00%. Because in my opinion, That's the difference he made in my small businesses.
Your forced continuity must be irresistible or worthwhile.
For example they will either get free shipping or save X amount of dollars or both. I've gained lost orders from offering a choice but most want to try the free trial.
Plus extend your free trial out to 30 days & not 7 to 14 days...Why? because like Gary Halbert says the customer will be too worried about the short amount of time & will be focused on the trial date expiring.
Most marketeers screw this part up & then wonder why their retention rate sucks...the marketers end up hurting themselves due to impatience to accumulating the sale. If you don't believe in your product then don't offer such a program or else it will haunt you.
I'm hoping you can point me to that content so I can study it for a continuity program I'm launching. Thank you.